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1989 Astro-Physics 7" F9 Starfire

I must sell one of my Telescopes, so I have decided to put both this one and my Mewlon 250 up For Sale. Which ever one sells, I will keep the other. This is a wonderful Telescope and Mount. This is a package deal, Telescope, Mount and ATS Pier. I am hoping to sell to someone close to Southern California because I do not want to ship the Telescope. Please read the Review I have done below on this Telescope.

Price is $21,500

1989 AP 178 Refractor on 2003 AP 900 GTO Mount

  12/25/06  Update! I am still using this old beauty as much as possible. I have posted some new pictures of the 178 mounted on the AP 900 mount and also the FeatherTouch focuser. It is a great setup and a dream Telescope!

My AP 178 Story

 In May of 2002 I attended the Riverside Telescope Makers Conference at Camp Oaks, Ca. The Moon was almost full, so observing was going to be tough. Just before dark on the first night the guy that was set up next to me started setting up a beautiful Astro-Physics 180mm EDT Refractor. I had never seen one in person before and it was a beauty. It immediately drew a crowd. It was the busiest Telescope on the field during the evening. Viewing that evening was tough, but the views of the craters at the edge of the Moon in the 180 EDT were very nice. The beauty of that 7' Refractor sitting on it's mount was stuck in my mind. It brought back memories of 1987 and seeing the Starfire Refractors in the AP Brochure and seeing a price tag of $3,600 for the 7". A price far out of my league. 

   When I got home I decided I was going to try and find a 7" AP Refractor. Astro-Physics no longer makes them, so I had two choices. The early 178mm Starfires and the newer 180mm EDT's. In 1987 Roland introduced the Starfire Triplet lens. It was the second step in the evolution of his now famous line of Triplet Refractors. It provided 5 times the color correction of his original Christian Triplet, a fine Refractor in it's own right. Views through a Starfire are free of false color on everything except very bright stars. For visual use they are as good as most people will ever need. The 7" Starfires were made from 1988-1992. In 1993 Roland switched to ED glass and his EDT's (F8 or F9) and EDF's ( F6 or F7) made him very famous in the Telescope making business. The EDT's and EDF's show no false color on anything. I believe they are the finest Refractors available. 7" F9 EDT's were built from 1993-1996. Roland stopped building the 7" Refractors in 1996. Working with glass that large was very difficult and very time consuming. He finally decided to focus on building 6" and under Refractors. The first thing I discovered was that the 7" AP Refractors were very rare and anyone that owned one, planned on keeping it. The second thing was the price. The few that went up for sale were EXPENSIVE! In 1996 you could buy a 180mm EDT for around $6,000 new. They are now selling for $14,000-$15,000. In 1988 you could buy a 178mm Starfire for $3,900 and now they sell for around $8,000-$11,000. I was floored.

   I decided to run a small Wanted Ad in Sky and Telescope Magazine to see if any 7' AP Refractors were hidden out there. I received two calls from guys selling 180 EDT's. A 1993 and a 1996. One was  $13,500 and the other one was $14,500. I just could not force myself to pay that much. After two months and no more calls I finally gave up and figured I would have to be happy with my 5" and 6" Starfires (not too bad). About a month later I received an e-mail from a guy in Ottawa, Canada. He saw my Ad in S&T and had a 1989 7" F9 Starfire (Blue Tube) that he had owned for 10 years and it was getting very little use. Would I be interested in buying it? It was the 7" I was looking for. We agreed on a fair price and I purchased the 7" and an AP 706 mount with a beautiful oak tripod.

   My brother had purchased a beautiful 1992 AP 7" Starfire last year and loved it. Before I decided on the 7" Starfire, I talked to him and two other owners of  7" Starfires. All three were thrilled with their 7" Starfires. One even e-mailed me and said he had owned a 1989 AP 7" Starfire and only sold it to buy a 1993 AP 7" EDT. He stated that the Starfire actually gave him a little better image than his 180 EDT and wished he had kept the Starfire. Very interesting to say the least. There is no question that an EDT will outperform a Starfire, I have seen it. But the difference is very small for me. The EDT has better color correction, with perhaps a little better sharpness and contrast. For me the difference visually is not enough to pay the price premium for the EDT.

To see a bigger picture double click on any Image below.

You will notice in the pictures above that I have added an accessory ring to mount the 8x50 finder scope. This Refractor is very front (lens cell) heavy and balance is about two thirds up the tube. I thought it looked a little strange. In order for  balance to be on tube center I use the accessory ring which weighs about 4lbs. It also allows me to put the finder where I want it. It has worked out great!

   A little history on this 7" Refractor. It is # 41 and was in Roland's first production run of 7" Starfires. Production started in late 1987 or early 1988 and this one was delivered in January of 1989. This first run of 7" Starfires had the tube painted a beautiful blue. The cost new was $3,975. My brothers 1992 AP 7" Starfire is # 106 and was in the second and last run of 7" Starfires. This run of 7" Starfires were painted Corvette white, the same color Roland has used since 1990. So it appears only two runs of  7" Starfires were made and I am guessing that less than 150 were produced. The best thing about this Starfire is that it is 100% original, including the old 8x50 finder. I plan on keeping it that way. The old owner did put a motofocus on it and it works great. Sharp focus is easy and precise. 

   As you can see by the pictures, this 7" is beautiful. I have always felt that the AP blue tube Refractors were the most beautiful Refractors Roland has ever made. Sitting on that beautiful oak tripod, it has the look of a true Classic Refractor. The whole setup is just about as large as one person can safely handle. It is hard for me to believe how big the 7" is. As you can see on my Astronomy main page, placing my 5" Starfire next to the 7" Starfire is a strong comparison of the telescope size difference.

    I have been trying to make the 706 mount work easier. It is a 110v. drive. It came with everything for drive correction and 12v operation. But it is a pain to set all that up. I finally setup the 706 and just plugged it into a house outlet. I then spent about two hours polar aligning it (no polar scope) as close as possible. Once that was completed, I made marks on my concrete patio where the tripod legs set (for future use) and gave it a try. To my surprise the mount tracks great. I can keep something in the eyepiece for 30 minutes at 160x with no problem. If I do need to adjust it a little, a small push or pull lines everything up again. It has worked out great for my backyard. I like using the old 706. If it looks like clear skies for a few nights I can leave it outside, cover it and it is ready to use the next night. I do not have to worry about a newer more expensive mount getting abused from being left outside for a few days. For remote viewing (12v) I have my Tak EM-200 mount and a tall tripod that will work fine for visual use and the 7".

    The 7" has twice the light gathering power of the 5" and about 40% more light gathering power than my 6". I was very interested to see how the 7" would perform against both the 5" and 6". I have had the 7" Starfire out for eight observing sessions. Five early mornings, observing the Moon, Jupiter and Saturn and three evenings observing the Moon and various deep sky objects. First thing I did was star test. Using my 5mm Pentax Ortho and a green filter I have tested the lens several times. The first couple times the seeing was pour and it was tough to get a good read. Finally on the third morning it was about an 8/10 for seeing and the star test was very good. I think it is as good or a little better than my 5" Starfire which I had set up so I could compare the two. On the same morning the Moon was in day 22 and both Jupiter and Saturn were up in all their glory. I observed all three through both the 5" and the 7". Both Refractors gave me wonderful views of all three. There was no problem seeing the difference between a 5" and 7" Refractor. The detail I was able to see in the 7" was much stronger than in the 5". The 7" was 100% false color free on all three. I ran the 7" up to 570x with the Tak 2.8. On the Moons edge there was nothing but pure white against a jet black background. I did spend one night looking at various deep sky objects. The best view was the double cluster with the 31mm Nagler. My favorite thing about a Refractor is the pinpoint stars from edge to edge across the whole jet black field of view. Also M-15 was beautiful. Finally I set up the 7" for three straight nights and the Moon was in day 6, 7 and 8. The first two nights were pour seeing, but on the third night or day 8 the seeing was up to an 8/10. The Moon was tack sharp with beautiful contrast at 320x with the Tak LE 5mm and the Pentax 5mm Ortho. Very Exciting!!!! I can't wait for the seeing to get up to a 9 or 10, the views should be wonderful. 

   I am very happy with this 7" Starfire and it has performed as I had hoped. The 706 mount has worked great for use in my backyard. The EM-200 mount is fine for visual use with the 7" at remote locations, especially with the motofocus. I will be happy when my 900 mount gets here, although that may be awhile.

   Over the next year Jupiter, Saturn and especially Mars are going to provide all of us with incredible Planetary views. It will be a year we will all remember. Having this beautiful 7" Refractor to observe with, will be a dream. I can't wait!

2/25/03 - I have had the 7" out many times over the last couple months, but the seeing has not been great. Finally on Friday night, 2/21/03 a nice weather high had positioned itself over Southern California. Seeing was a solid 8/10 and 400x plus power provided great Images in the 7". My favorite planet, Jupiter has moved into the perfect position and I spent two hours viewing Jupiter. The detail I could see on the surface was amazing! Not only great detail but the image is tack sharp and the contrast is superb. I spent most of the time at 440x with the Tak LE 3.6mm eyepiece. The North and South Equatorial bands were full of Festoons, Columns and Streaks.  On the edge of the North Band was a nice Bar that was a slight red/brown in color. The South Temperate belt was clearly visible and an area I had not seen before. As I spend more time behind the 7" in times if good seeing I have grown to appreciate the quality view a 7" Refractor is capable of delivering. There is no doubt that the 7" Starfire will be heavily used over the next several months on Saturn, Jupiter and Mars!

  I will update this page as time allows and something interesting happens.

Scott